Scroll design

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atl.genbukai
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Joined: Dec 23, 2013 9:02 pm

Scroll design

Post by atl.genbukai » Dec 26, 2013 3:56 pm

Also, 初心忘る可からず is what is found in your site, but I have also seen 初心忘るべからず. Can you clarify which more closely reflect the idea of never forget your beginner's spirit? Sorry for the multiple questions, just trying to make sure I order the correct thing without an, "oh shoot" moment after it arrives in the dojo. Thanks again for your assistance.

Adam

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Gary
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Re: Scroll design

Post by Gary » Dec 27, 2013 12:08 am

That's actually a good point. These are both ways to say the same thing. I did some research, and it appears that 初心忘るべからず is used more commonly. Perhaps 10x more often than 初心忘る可からず. I went ahead and changed my custom wall scroll entry to 初心忘るべからず. That will probably be the best choice for you as well.

Cheers,
-Gary.

atl.genbukai
Posts: 9
Joined: Dec 23, 2013 9:02 pm

Re: Scroll design

Post by atl.genbukai » Dec 27, 2013 9:25 am

Not to beat a dead horse, but did you happen to find any instance of 常に翔を忘れぬべからず used in this context? I ran across a design done by my instructor, a native Japanese speaker, with this kanji used. Could it be an older way of expressing the same sentiment? Just curious.

atl.genbukai
Posts: 9
Joined: Dec 23, 2013 9:02 pm

Re: Scroll design

Post by atl.genbukai » Dec 27, 2013 9:49 am

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Should have been 常に初心を忘れぬべからず. Thanks,

Adam

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Gary
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Re: Scroll design

Post by Gary » Dec 27, 2013 11:44 am

It's OK, I was not paying attention last night either. After I spent so much time researching, I was answering too fast to realize you were asking a new question.

I will base my answer on Japanese Google results. I searched for, "常に翔を忘れぬべからず" and "常に初心を忘れぬべからず", with the quotes (so it would be an exact match only). There were zero results (this is very rare).

To compare this, a search for, "初心忘るべからず", has over 230,000 results.

In general, if I search for something in Chinese or Japanese text on Google, and there are no results, it means one of these things:
1. Somebody made up the phrase themselves (with or without the aid of a native Chinese/Japanese person).
2. It's a bad machine translation (Google translate is not a substitute for a human translator).
3. It's a very rare, antiquated or ancient phrase.

These are probably not the only possibilities, but I've never found a scenario outside of these 3.

In my opinion, you are better off with "初心忘るべからず".

-G.

atl.genbukai
Posts: 9
Joined: Dec 23, 2013 9:02 pm

Re: Scroll design

Post by atl.genbukai » Dec 27, 2013 12:11 pm

I think scenario 3 is most likely; google translate turned up an almost Elizabethan-sounding gobbledygook. Also, my Sensei seems to try and find the older/more polite way of expression. Thank you for you help. I'll likely get my order in later today.

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