Blank Makimono Hand Scrolls

Questions and answers about our artwork mounting. See a tour of our artwork mounting workshop.
hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Blank Makimono Hand Scrolls

Post by hurricanf6 » Dec 5, 2010 6:10 pm

I would like to see about having some Japanese style makimonos made around 10 or so this is a pitcutre of one I picked up in Kyoto last year. Image It is around 8 feet give or take about 12 inches wide. thanks.

User avatar
Gary
The Boss
Posts: 6091
Joined: Oct 30, 2007 11:30 pm
Location: San Diego / Beijing

Post by Gary » Dec 6, 2010 1:40 pm



I don't make too many of these, so I don't have any pictures on hand (other than this illustration).

We can do them with our without knobs. I can do them for around $42.88 each plus shipping.

This would be with handmade xuan paper suitable for calligraphy. If you need "cooked" or "sized" xuan paper, be sure to specify that.

You'll also need to specify the length of the paper panel. Standard paper length is 135cm. Many people will go with 270cm (About 9 feet) as there will be just one paper splice.

You can customize what you want here:
http://www.orientaloutpost.com/options. ... all+Scroll
Start by selecting a "Horizontal Wall Scroll" mounting. I don't have a mock up for hand scrolls, but this will allow you to look at silk colors and get an idea of what you are ordering.

For several reasons, hand scrolls are $10 more than regular wall scrolls. For each hand scroll you order, please match the number of this surcharge item in your cart:
http://www.orientaloutpost.com/proddeta ... d=blank-hs

The shipping fee charges is just $9.80 per order. So if you buy 1 or 100 of these, you pay just $9.80 once. This is how you save money by ordering more (we absorb the actual cost of shipping from Beijing into the price paid for each scroll).

Cheers,
-Gary.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Post by hurricanf6 » Dec 6, 2010 2:34 pm

Ok I would like to order one to start off as I will be ordering for several people. I will put in the order shortly.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Post by hurricanf6 » Dec 6, 2010 2:41 pm

do the hand scrolls use the accent lines and would the be the edging seen in the picture above?

User avatar
Gary
The Boss
Posts: 6091
Joined: Oct 30, 2007 11:30 pm
Location: San Diego / Beijing

Post by Gary » Dec 6, 2010 3:00 pm

Yes, we put a brownish keyline on the edges of the sides of the scroll as well as a fine line between the art (paper) panel and silk.

The scrolls we make in our shop are just below museum quality, so they are a lot better than 90% of the scrolls on the market (most scrolls are made for tourists these days).

We don't have any knobs like the knob shown in your image. Your choice is a blind end capped with silk brocade, or a larger wooden knob. I suggest going with the wooden knobs, as they make it much easier to roll up. Also, I designed our knobs myself on my own lathe. They're really nice for production knobs. If you want to spend more, I can also get some polished hardwood knobs, but that's nearly $20 more.

-Gary.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Post by hurricanf6 » Dec 6, 2010 4:45 pm

That sounds great the knobs on that thing is a little cheap so wood will be fine. I will order one tomorrow so I can show it to the people that are wanting them. Thank you so much for your help.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Post by hurricanf6 » Dec 7, 2010 12:23 pm

Ok I some better measurements now. I was wrong about the width its 180mm wide for paper. I will probably go with the length of 270cm. Is the width a normal thing or will that be an issue.

User avatar
Gary
The Boss
Posts: 6091
Joined: Oct 30, 2007 11:30 pm
Location: San Diego / Beijing

Post by Gary » Dec 8, 2010 10:23 am

OK, I got your order and sent it to Beijing.

Paper dimensions at 270cm wide, and 18cm high. That 18cm is very narrow (smallest I have ever heard of, as I've never seen a hand scroll with paper under 33cm). We make them ourselves, so we can do that, I just want to confirm these are correct.

-Gary.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Post by hurricanf6 » Dec 8, 2010 11:09 am

I think for now I am good it is nice to know what the average size is as after this order I may want to go with something wider.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Just recieved the hand scroll

Post by hurricanf6 » Dec 23, 2010 10:37 am

I have received the hand scroll I ordered it's not quite what I was looking for. Don't get me wrong the quality is fine and its very nice but I am looking for a Japanese style makimono. Below are some pictures with my comments I would love to be able to order some more if we where able to correct the things below. I hope I am not being to big of a pain about this.

As you can see here the silk is on the outside framing the paper. While This is rather nice to look at and is probably better in a lot of ways it is not really what I want. Is it possible to not have any silk down the length of the paper?
Image

The silk is facing the inside which makes since but for the needs stated above. As in the first picture in my post shows the silk is facing outside.
Image

Again I do want to say the quality if the product is great that why I really would like to be able to do this.

This is a cheap little makimono I picked up in Japan its not very good quality but it shows what I am looking for.

Image

Image

Image


Image

User avatar
Gary
The Boss
Posts: 6091
Joined: Oct 30, 2007 11:30 pm
Location: San Diego / Beijing

Post by Gary » Dec 27, 2010 3:25 pm

I did some Google searching to see if anyone else could supply you with these. No joy on that.

So you want the silk brocade to go down the back of the whole length of the scrolls (not just at the head for about 30cm)?

On the sides you want no silk brocade (your sample image appears to have a very small keyline of silk - I don't think I have an appropriate silk for this). We probably need to put a brown paper keyline (the same kind as on the edge of the scroll we made for you) just to make the edge look finished.

Our knobs where OK for you?

I need to talk to my master mounter and see if we can do this. The techniques are basically the same, but I need to discuss with him if the labor is the same etc.

If you can answer or confirm my understandings above, that would be a great help.

-Gary.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Blank Makimono Hand Scrolls

Post by hurricanf6 » Dec 27, 2010 6:15 pm

Actually full length is not necessary for the silk to be the full length most Japanese scrolls only have silk on the first part before the paper typically no silk backing down the length of the paper. The knobs where great. The brown keyline looks great the one I have is gold but honestly I like the brown better. As you stated no silk brocade down the sides. I would be willing to ship you my mini makimono as a sample for you if you would like. It might make this a little easier for you. Again thank you for your time on this.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

update

Post by hurricanf6 » Jan 3, 2011 12:13 pm

Haven't heard back from you yet I know its the holidays just wondering what the status is. I again would be willing to ship my mini makimono as a reference tool for you if you would like.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

status

Post by hurricanf6 » Jan 10, 2011 9:51 am

Just wondering if you have heard anything as to the possibilities?

User avatar
Gary
The Boss
Posts: 6091
Joined: Oct 30, 2007 11:30 pm
Location: San Diego / Beijing

Post by Gary » Jan 10, 2011 3:59 pm

Sorry about that. We've been busy on both sides of the Pacific. In Beijing, there's lots of artwork exhibitions we are preparing for prior to Chinese New Years. Here in the USA, I was busy enlisting in and fulfilling some duties in the Army National Guard (I thought I'd never wear a uniform again, but suddenly, I am a Sergeant again).

My master mounter says he can do that style of hand scroll.

The only caveat is that we'd much rather do 10 or more of them in a batch (this will keep us from charging the full surcharge, so you can pay just $23.88 each for the size you want at 10+ pieces). There's just a lot of set up to do, so if you're buying less than 10 of them at a time, that $10-per-scroll surcharge will apply like before making it 29.88 per scroll for the size you want at less than 10 pieces.

If you want to get a batch of 10 or more later, I just need you to select the size "small" (even though yours are basically "extra small"). I guess you could say this makes the surcharge $4 instead of $10.

A lot of math and discussion went into this.

I understand if you want to get a single sample order in first (I'd want to do that myself before ordering a batch of 10).

-Gary.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

great news

Post by hurricanf6 » Jan 10, 2011 4:08 pm

Ya i figured it would be crazy around this time of year. Wow they called you back in huh crazy. Thanks for getting back to me with all that stuff going on. I would be willing to order 10 or more. I will get 10 minimum regardless that seems reasonable. I would love a sample first however. So let me know how you want to do that.

On a side note I never received my silk samples that I ordered with my first order.

Thanks

User avatar
Gary
The Boss
Posts: 6091
Joined: Oct 30, 2007 11:30 pm
Location: San Diego / Beijing

Post by Gary » Jan 10, 2011 11:27 pm

I thought I mentioned that, but it must have been to the other customer who is currently waiting for samples. I ran out of 3 kinds of silk samples and have more coming now (currently stuck in U.S. Customs). I'll send the full set as soon as I can get you a complete set of silk and papers.

If you want, I can send you what I have now. I think I am just missing orange-chocolate (and you should know what that looks like, as I think that's what you ordered on your scroll), the frost blue, and frost green.

You can use the same link as last time (see previous post in this topic/thread) to order a sample wall scroll.

-Gary.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Post by hurricanf6 » Jan 11, 2011 2:54 pm

Okay will order a scroll my question is though what do i need to specify in the request to make sure I get the proper configuration if I use the way I ordered the first time wont that result in the same scroll I got before? Just wanting to make sure before I order it should I include this conversation as a link in the notes?

User avatar
Gary
The Boss
Posts: 6091
Joined: Oct 30, 2007 11:30 pm
Location: San Diego / Beijing

Post by Gary » Jan 11, 2011 4:55 pm

I'm going to be setting this up on the job order that I send to Beijing. My scroll-maker and I have already discussed the special issues here.

Last time, we did it the typical (I guess you could call it "Chinese") way. This time we are going to do it without silk borders (just a brown keyline) on the sides. This way is sometimes done in ancient and modern China, and seems to have become the standard in Japan.

To be clear: If we were to screw this up and accidentally put silk borders on the sides, you won't have to pay for it.

I probably only get two orders for hand scrolls per year, so I will be sure to notice yours, and make the special arrangements.

-Gary.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Post by hurricanf6 » Jan 12, 2011 9:45 am

Ok great I submit the order today for the sample one. thanks again for all your work on this.

User avatar
Gary
The Boss
Posts: 6091
Joined: Oct 30, 2007 11:30 pm
Location: San Diego / Beijing

Post by Gary » Jan 12, 2011 3:34 pm

I was just working on your order, and a question popped into my head. Do you want this to be just white silk (front and back faces near the head of the hand scroll), or do you want a two-toned style like the sample image you showed.

I can do the two-toned without extra charge since we're not doing silk down the sides.

Let me know what color you'd want in addition to white (presuming that color would be the one you want on the back as the wrap-around color when the scroll is rolled up).

Also, something not clear in the images is how far the back side silk goes. Is is about 30cm (12") just like the front?

I'm worried that it might be the whole length. Also, part of me really wants to reinforce the connection of paper to the roller with a small panel of silk.

Let me know what you think.


-Gary.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

Post by hurricanf6 » Jan 12, 2011 6:03 pm

Thats a good point um well I know they appear two tone the nice one in my first post really just seems like its the back of the silk. We can try the two tone but the normally when writing the silk section is just rolled and placed at one side. So i think just white would be fine.

The silk attaching to the paper is normally just what it takes to cover the roll fully with some left over. I think it would really depend on the paper and the dowel that it is attached to. Hope that makes since.

The length should be fine I know I will loose like 6 to 8 inchs for mounting but that should be fine as the one we have now is 240cm so have 30cm to work with. I think that small panel of silk would be nice but I not really sure it needs it but it would be interesting to see.

I haven't really gone into why I need these that might help a little. So basiclly I practice a martial that has koryu Japanese roots so when you become a certified instructor traditionally you are presented a mokuroku http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokuroku. As the link says its a hand written on a hand scroll. Well they are pretty hard to find in Japan almost impossible to find in the states. This is a pretty big deal for our system as a head instructor is out of the ones he was able to get in the 70's. So thanks for all the work on it.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

order status

Post by hurricanf6 » Feb 18, 2011 12:11 am

I am was wondering the status of my order 13437

User avatar
Gary
The Boss
Posts: 6091
Joined: Oct 30, 2007 11:30 pm
Location: San Diego / Beijing

Post by Gary » Feb 18, 2011 8:45 am

It's coming, we just got jammed up in the Chinese New Years holiday (which lasts for a month for the artistic community of China). The workshop will be back at work on the 20th.

Sorry for the delay, your special project needs special attention from the master mounter. He just could not squeeze it in before the holiday break.

-Gary.

hurricanf6
Advanced Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 5, 2010 6:01 pm

order

Post by hurricanf6 » Mar 17, 2011 1:08 pm

any update on the order?

Locked