Custom Blank scroll

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Huyen
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Custom Blank scroll

Post by Huyen » Sep 18, 2008 10:36 am

Dear Gary

I need two custom blank scrolls for the front of my shop (I sell tea and herbals) to tell my customer what I sell.
The size is 15''(include the wooden knob)x51''.
I like the gold silk color and the hair-like fiber paper. The size of the paper would be approximatively 11''x36''.
Do you think it's possible to make these custom scroll ?
How much would it be for the two and how much for the shipping for France.
Thank you for your answer

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Sep 18, 2008 1:45 pm

This would be US$20 for the scroll, US$1 for the hairy xuan paper, and US$15.80 for shipping to France from our workshop in Beijing. If you buy more than one scroll, shipping on additional scrolls is just $4.80 per scroll.

We could also take your artwork on xuan paper and built it into a wall scroll (this is a little safer, as if you make a mistake, you only loose a sheet of xuan paper, but if you write directly on a wall scroll and make a mistake, it's a much bigger loss).

When working out your measurements, you can use the metric system. Unlike most Americans, I know the metric system quite well, and in China, we only work in terms of centimeters and meters.

Cheers,
-Gary.

Huyen
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New order !

Post by Huyen » Sep 19, 2008 6:24 am

Thank you Gary for your quick answer !
I will to order 4 blank scroll instead of 2. In another website they charge 79$ each custom blank scroll... With you, I can have 4 for the same price ! :D
I'm going to order right now via your shopping cart and specify the exact size in centimeters, the color of the silk and the paper.
Thanks a lot

Huyen

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Sep 19, 2008 10:41 am

I saw your creative way to order custom scrolls.

I'm now working on that order, but I see you want a 31cm artwork panel width. Because there is 5cm of silk border on each side, that's 41cm at the edges of the silk border. The knobs together make up about 9cm. So at the ends of the knobs, the measurement would be 50cm.
Let me know if you want to change anything on width.

As far as length:
The top silk panel is generally around 35cm tall.
The bottom silk panel is about 25cm.
So your 84cm artwork panel would yield a wall scroll about 144cm.

Let me know if you want to make any adjustments. We can change the artwork panel to yield the 120cm over all length that you want, give you a longer (144cm) scroll, or crop the top and bottom silk panels a bit.

Also, in the way you placed the order, there is an over payment of US$23.28
Would you like a refund, or a seventh wall scroll?

By the way, the reason our price is crazy low has to do with the fact they we are making our own wall scrolls in our own workshop. Also, we are not really in the business of making blank scrolls, so we are charging the courtesy price that we offer for people who buy unmounted artwork (then find they can not frame it or find anyone to mount it to a scroll), and for artists around the world with no access to a scroll making facility. We do it for almost zero profit.

Cheers,
-Gary.

Creator8
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How to order blank scrolls?

Post by Creator8 » Aug 25, 2009 5:04 am

Hello Gary,

you mention the «creative» way to order blank scrolls (I am a Zen artist based in Quebec City Canada). I unfortunately can not find where to begin and how to do it.

Thank you,

Creator4

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Post by Gary » Aug 25, 2009 3:32 pm

I am actually working on a special page for customizing and ordering blank scrolls (it's actually a new page for ordering our custom calligraphy, but I am going to add a feature for blank scroll ordering).

For now, you just need to tell me what you want. I will then give you an estimate, and send you a link to a "dummy item" where you can checkout and pay for the scroll(s) that you want.

Cheers,
-Gary.

Creator8
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Quote

Post by Creator8 » Aug 26, 2009 3:20 am

Gary,

I would joyfully appreciate a quote for the following blank scrolls:

All of the same size: Width - 49-52cm Length- 152cm (paper size for four characters)

1- Silk colour- gold with premium xuan paper beige with gold flakes
2- Silk colour- white with premium xuan paper beige with gold flakes
3-Silk colour- plain white with premium special hand made paper "natural"
4- Silk colour- flat black with premium xuan paper beige with gold flakes

They are to be shipped to Quebec City Canada (G1R 2N2)

This would be a first order to try and see how it goes.

I also do giant zen paintings on Red Star paper of the size 98cm by 180cm. Do you have any giant scrolls that I could glue and mount these on, and if so, is it possible (easily mountable) and what kind of cost would I be looking at?

Best regards,

Michel

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Aug 26, 2009 11:48 am

I imagine you want the paper width to be 33cm, which yields a wall scroll that measures around 52cm at the ends of the wooden knobs.

Base price of the wall scrolls will be $20 each + $1 each for premium papers.

I need to charge an extra $10 for the plain white silk and the flat black cloth. We buy tons of gold, white, and ivory brocade, but these special ones cost a lot more (the white costs more no matter what) because we buy smaller amounts of them, and prep them in smaller batches. Just one $10 fee for your whole order - not each scroll.

Shipping will be $15.80 for the first scroll and $4.80 for each additional (so $30.20 total for shipping).

Grand Total:
$124.20

If that is acceptable, I will send the specifications to Beijing, and send a link for payment to you.
Expect that this could take 30 days for delivery from Beijing.

As for your super huge Zen calligraphy:
We bought a bigger artwork press last year (it costs as much as a car in China - about $7000). So we could mount your artwork to a wall scroll at our shop. However, shipping such a large piece internationally is a problem.

From China to the USA, we have to keep it around 32" (82cm) total package length.

For Canada, I think we can go as long as 1 meter total package length. However, your 98cm wide paper yields a wall scroll measuring about 117cm at the wooden knobs. That's a package of about 122cm long when properly packed.

I can bribe a Chinese postal clerk (and probably bribe a Customs agent in China as well - actually, I'd bribe the postal clerk to make sure the Customs agent did not see it). However, it's hard to say what the Canadian Customs or Canada Post might do with the package.

The other option is DHL, FedEx or UPS but that gets really expensive.

The best large size paper is 68-70 cm wide and up to 135cm long. This is known as "sichi" or "4 foot paper" (I don't know what kind of feet they were using when they came up with this - apparently, a Chinese foot is about 33cm long - but human Chinese feet are probably around 25cm on average).

If you are using Red Star paper, this is the most common size that paper company makes.
FYI: We generally use Red Flag brand paper, as it seems to be as good as Red Star, but costs about 35-40% less. We use Red Star for our plain white paper for our master calligrapher's work, as they make the smoothest, whitest, and most uniform xuan paper - which is really important for pure white. Red Star and Red Flag are the top two xuan paper companies in all of China. There are a few more paper companies in Anhui and elsewhere, but quality varies drastically.

Cheers,
-Gary.

Creator8
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Blank scrolls

Post by Creator8 » Aug 26, 2009 2:45 pm

Thank you Gary for the info,

I take good note of the Red Flag paper.
What brand is the sichi «4 foot paper»?
Is my big Red Star paper «pure white» as it seems a little off white?

Is the 124...$ in US dollars? Are you aware if usually there are duties and taxes at my end?

For my hughe Zen paintings, would I be able to mount them myself and avoid having to send them to you and you could maybe just send me the scrolls?

Best regards,

Michel

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Post by Gary » Aug 26, 2009 4:43 pm

That's in U.S. Dollars.

Red Star and Red Flag paper companies have pure white, and more beige or natural colored xuan paper. It's hard to say for sure what you have. When you buy 100 sheets, you can see the trademark stamped on the edge.

As far as duties (GST in the case of Canada), we'll mark this as "handmade artwork". Technically, this is a handmade art supply, but there is no Harmonized Code for handmade art supplies, so I will classify this as "art" - which is a duty-free category.

-Gary.

Creator8
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Post by Creator8 » Aug 26, 2009 6:18 pm

Very well Gary, I will order.

Please go ahead and send me a link payment (I suppose I can pay with a credit card or Paypal?) and as you say, send the specifications to Beijing.

You did not mention if it would be possible just to send me the giant scrolls for my hughe Zen paintings and if I could mount them myself?

According to you, which scroll models/colours are the most Zen? Are the ones I chose, truly Zen?

Thank you,

Michel

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Post by Gary » Aug 27, 2009 12:07 pm

It's the same problem whether we mount them for you (which will probably come out much better), or if we build huge blank wall scrolls for you. The problem is the shipping size and postal regulations.

I'm sending your specs to Beijing now, and will send you a link for payment tomorrow.

-Gary.

Creator8
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Zen

Post by Creator8 » Aug 27, 2009 12:22 pm

Is there a particular scroll design/colour that is known as being truly Zen?

Thank you,

Michel

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Aug 27, 2009 7:00 pm

Zen is a word that is often misused in western context (mostly in English).

Zen was actually pronounced "Chan" first, and came from Chinese Buddhism. But the word alone is not exclusive to Buddhism. It just means "meditation". The original character looks like this:


There is a shorthand form that developed in China. This version looks like this:


When Japan absorbed this character for meditation into the Japanese language, at some point they started writing it with an extra dot on the top:


There is of course, a sect known as "Zen Buddhism". As you would imagine, this is a form of Buddhism with much emphasis on mediation.

If you take the Zen / Chan away from the Buddhist context, it goes back to just meaning "meditation".

In a way, what you are asking is, "What is the most meditation-style wall scroll". A question for which there is not just one (if any) answer.

My answer would be orange paper with white or ivory silk. Most Buddhist-themed titles are written on what is sometimes called "Buddha Orange" xuan paper. Except for wall scrolls depicting Buddhist deities (none calligraphy), the silk tends to be simple and mono-toned (not too fancy - usually not multiple colors etc). But there is not a hard-and-fast rule for this. There are many exceptions.

Cheers,
-Gary.

Creator8
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Zen

Post by Creator8 » Aug 27, 2009 11:30 pm

Very interesting info.

please ad to my order one ivory scroll with orange paper (same size as the four others). You would be most considerate, if possible, to charge one flat fee of 9.80$ shipping as your policy states (and as this is a first trial order) instead of 30.20$ as you have mentioned I would be charged.

Thank you for your consideration,

Michel

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Aug 28, 2009 3:23 pm

Actually, custom built wall scrolls are a nearly-zero-profit endeavor for us. They are a separate category altogether. Thus we have to charge the actual cost of shipping.

For our selection of mounted artwork, we absorb some of the actual shipping cost (about $5 of each wall scroll).

I should probably just start charging $25 instead of $20 for the basic blank wall scrolls and allow the special $9.80 shipping fee to apply.

Because this is an "art supply" of sorts, I wanted to show the artists what they are really paying for.

I'll add that orange / ivory scroll to your order.

Here are some real life examples of "Zen" calligraphy:
http://www.orientaloutpost.com/proddeta ... =cs-hotoke
http://www.orientaloutpost.com/proddeta ... rod=cs-zen
http://www.orientaloutpost.com/proddeta ... s-zen-chan

Cheers,
-Gary.

Creator8
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Zen and new addition to my order

Post by Creator8 » Aug 28, 2009 8:58 pm

Thank you Gary, they are beautiful. I'd also like to have some gold flakes on the orange paper. And please add one more scroll to my order: the same as the blank scroll used to do the «ZEN / CHAN Japanese Kanji / Chinese Character Wall Scroll» so that I can personnaly do the one Zen character alone myself (ivory silk with orange paper with gold flakes). Sorry for the constant changes, my first order is now complete.

best regards,

Michel

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Aug 29, 2009 10:30 pm

Am I adding 1 or 2 scrolls with ivory silk and gold flake orange paper?

All the same size - right?

-Gary.

Creator8
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Order

Post by Creator8 » Aug 30, 2009 3:46 am

Hi Gary,

yes please add two ivory silk with orange paper with gold flakes; one the same size as the others (so I can do four characters) ie. 152cm X 52cm .The other one is to do only one big Zen character so it is the same size as your original artist does it (ie. it appears to be 123cm X 58cm with the paper 50 cm x 68 cm).

So, to recapitulate, the initial order is:

The same size for these five: Scroll Width - 49-52cm Length- 152cm (paper size for four characters- width 33cm)
1- Silk colour- gold with premium xuan paper beige with gold flakes
2- Silk colour- white (Ivory?) with premium xuan paper beige with gold flakes
3-Silk colour- plain white with premium special hand made paper "natural"
4- Silk colour- flat black with premium xuan paper beige with gold flakes
5- Silk colour- Ivory with premium orange paper with gold flakes
And the sixth one, different size: 123cm X 58 (paper size 50cm x 68cm)
6- Silk colour- Ivory with premium orange paper with gold flakes

Hoping it makes sense,

Thank you,

Michel

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Aug 31, 2009 11:15 am

For the record: The first 5 have a paper size of approximately 33cm x 84cm.

If the 6th one is to have paper of 50cm x 68cm, the width at the wooden knobs will be about 69cm. The length will be about 123cm.

The cost of this large size will be $40 base price. However, this will count as a second order because we cannot ship this large size with the other 5 scrolls. So $15.80 shipping will apply (we'll actually pay more than $20 to get that scroll to you via air mail).

I may be slow to respond after today, as I am heading out on a one-week vacation (first week-long break in 3+ years).

I sent your info to Beijing already, so there will be no delay.

-Gary.

Creator8
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Have a good vacation!

Post by Creator8 » Aug 31, 2009 1:45 pm

Hi Gary,

On the last scroll, I just wish to do the Zen symbol calligraphy as you have showed me on the example; it is absoulutely beautiful. You are the expert and please go ahead and chose the sizes as I am just a brand new beginner with the scrolls and this is a first trial order. You will surely send me a total and a paylink.

Thank you and all the best in your well deserved vacation,

Michel

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Sep 13, 2009 4:13 pm

Your custom blank wall scroll order is ready to be shipped from Beijing to France.

Your can pay for your wall scrolls here, and we will ship them right away via air mail:
http://www.orientaloutpost.com/proddetail.php?prod=cms6

-Gary.

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Shipping to Canada... not France.

Post by Creator8 » Sep 13, 2009 6:42 pm

Hi Gary,

I hope you had a good and restful vacation.

I suppose that you meant Canada (and not France) when you say my order is ready to be shipped.

My name being Michel maybe this is why you thought I was living in France... I am french Canadian living in Québec City Canada. I also suppose I can pay now the amount which includes shipping anywhere including Canada. So, this is what I will do now.

Thank you,

Michel

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Sep 13, 2009 10:46 pm

I saw your order, and sent your address to our studio in Beijing so your scrolls can be packed and shipped. They will go to Canada, and not France.

I am not sure how I started to think you were in France. Must have been your name. At least you are one of the long-lost cousins of France.

Funny story:
In about 2002 there was a day I was walking past the Forbidden City, and stumbled across a group of tourists from Toronto. The Chinese tour company had assigned them a French-speaking tour guide believing that all Canadians speak French.

The group was trying in vain to explain in very broken French that they did not speak French. With my basic Mandarin ability, I butted in, and tried to explain to the Chinese tour guide that her whole group of tourists only spoke English. Her reply in Chinese meant, "But why? They are from Canada!". I really didn't know how to answer that question, and tried to think of how to compose a reply...

Meanwhile, a few of the Canadians were jokingly discussing very loudly how much dynamite would be required to dislodge Quebec from the rest of Canada, and set it adrift in the sea. Soon after, another member of the group explained that this was their second full day on the tour with all commentary in French.

...It was then they I knew what to say. "For two days, they have all understood nothing that you said". Immediately she got on the phone with her boss, and I overheard her argument with him about whether or not Canadians all speak French. Finally, an English-speaking tour guide was dispatched and offers to buy me all the beer I could drink came from the group.



I actually have a great fondness for Canada, and would immigrate there if given the legal opportunity. I spent the last 6 years of the Bush administration wearing a tee-shirt that had a Canadian flag on it with, "Proud to live near Canada" printed below. I also travel internationally with a Canadian flag sewn on my backpack so that people get to know me before they decide to hate me. :-)

Cheers,
-Gary.

Creator8
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Ha!

Post by Creator8 » Sep 14, 2009 5:26 am

Gary,

this is a fascinating and most funny story... thank you very much for sharing it with me. I can understand how it can be to live under the Bush administration but in Canada we've had for some time his «cousin» leading our country: Stepen Harper. Let's say that the fondness for our country by the rest of the world is tarnishing incredibly.... very unfortunate.

It would surely be wonderful to have you in Canada and spread the beauty and the great value of the most ancient Art on earth and to do it with great humour! You are most welcome any time!

I am excited and truly look forward to receiving my first order,

Michel

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